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Forums - Is anyone else incredibly frustrated by the grammar quizes?

Top > renshuu.org > Questions about renshuu



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NLLumi
Level: 1021
The way they are taught and presented feels like setting learners up for failure: partial explanations of grammar constructions that don’t properly map to English, way too many questions that have more than one reasonable answer (or only one, but the difference between the correct and incorrect answers is not properly explained in advance). It would have been somehow tolerable, if it hadn’t been for one of the permanent study quests being about gaining ridiculously long

streaks of correct grammar questions in a row—I’ve come to resort to straight-up cheating at this point to stand any sort of chance of getting past higher double-digits.

I don’t know how, but it feels like this system needs some serious overhaul.

3
9 months ago
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The way I see grammar presented in renshuu is more of a bonus; in that I think learners shouldn't entirely rely on the Renshuu explanations for grammar. In my experience so far, I think it's just good enough as it is, but for an app that has a big focus on SRS, grammar could be more tricky.

I wouldn't say grammar is setting any one up for failure in renshuu though; there are plenty of users that take the time to explain grammar points, if you have questions concerning grammar you can also always directly ask and are almost guaranteed to get a response some time soon.

As for mission streak, I'm pretty sure you can change those in renshuu.

renshuu is improving everyday and I'm sure the grammar section of renshuu will as well too, but compared to words and kanji that can be explained in a couple of words, grammar can be more nuanced and complicated than the rest.

Edit: forgot to mention that there are plenty of lessons in the Japanese Lessons section of renshuu too; try checking the videos too, they could greatly help you.

4
9 months ago
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ロウ (Row)
Level: 914

The problem is that the grammar lessons are a relatively new thing, but the grammar SRS schedules have been around for awhile. The set up is three grammar points per quiz, so there's three grammar points per lesson to match, which isn't very efficient. Grammar can't be taught with SRS very well anyway, so I would read the lessons on your own time and ignore the schedules if you like (and just turn off the quests like リンク said).

2
9 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 328

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but while there could be improvements to the data, I feel that we are not too far from the "best" that renshuu will be able to offer now and in the foreseeable future. For what renshuu costs (or, for most people, doesn't cost), we simply will not be able to offer the level of detail on a per-question level that you are looking for. We currently have 13,000 or so grammar questions (although not all of those have multiple choice answers), and I feel we could add 2-3x that and still not "have enough".

I do feel that, while they are taking awhile, the Japanese lessons that are being developed fill in a big gap that you're referring to - I think it's just (a guess on the level that you are currently at) that those are not yet available for about 30% of N3, and 100% of N2/N1. They are planned, though, and they go into much more depth than the grammar pages give.

If you feel that a streak was broken due to an issue with renshuu, then just message me privately and I can get it fixed for you. However, I would humbly suggest that if streaks are causing you serious stress, then just disable them - they are meant to be a positive motivator for those who benefit from that kind of mechanism (and many people do not).


14
9 months ago
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むじな
Level: 724

@NLLumi, I was a bit frustrated too. I agree, I had times when I thought "but but but that wasn't mentioned! How was I supposed to get it right? How would I know it should be like this and not like that? No one's told me when to use just まで and when to use までに! And now I ruined my winning streak!"

Here's a different perspective though, which made the whole process settle comfortably into place for me:

It's not about getting it right.

An I don't mean it in a happy-clappy, pep-up, "you're perfect just the way you are", "it's OK to be wrong" way. I mean, once you're past the very basics, Renshuu isn't built along the lines of 1) I was told "do it like this", 2) I was given an example, 3) I applied the "do it like this" correctly and got rewarded. Because (sorry if I sound preachy!) language just doesn't work that way, the grammar part of it even less so. School makes it sound like that, but it's not, it's way too complex. There are sentences where we could debate about whether to use が or を untill next year. There are ambiguous contexts, which even native speakers would wonder about. There are situations in which the Japanese way of expressing things is just so different from English that you can't make inferences based on the translation. And those are the situations you learn the most from.

It's not about the satisfaction of ticking the right answers and accumulating rewards, although many teaching methods use that very basic pleasure mechanism to help you keep going. You will learn the core of a grammar mechanism out of these "failures", I promise, I've been there. Hey I'm the overachiever who must get all the trophies in games kao_guts.png It's just that, once you're past the most elementary notions, that basic learning mechanism that gives us so much pleasure doesn't work anymore. We're out of the shallows and have to fumble along, and no amount of explanation is going to make it clear from the get-go. Then you accumulate enough "failures" that the big picture finally forms and wow! you realise now you get it and you don't even know how. For anything past the barebones elements of a language, it's pretty much the only way.


9
9 months ago
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