掲示板 Forums - renshuu pro adjustment: sentence quizzing (discussion)

Currently, renshuu pro users have access to sentence-based questions for vocab quizzes. By default, renshuu will try to only use sentences that do not have too many words unknown to the user.

Thanks to the vast increase in the number of users who study grammar, too, as well as renshuu's grammar engine, I can now (for many users) also keep track of how many conjugation forms in the sentence are known/unknown to the user. For example, for someone studying grammar, I can say "oh, this sentence may not be great because it has casual verb forms in it, and they have not yet studied that."

The big question is what to do with this user info to improve the sentence selection. I'd love your feedback! Here are my thoughts:

1. I do not think using it to exclude sentences is ideal (say: only show sentences that use conjugations they have studied) - the reason for this is not all users study the grammar, and some users will not study, say, grammar below where they were before joining renshuu. So the "they know these conjugations" information will be useful, but most likely not complete.

2. Because of this, I'm thinking that instead of using it to exclude sentences, use it to sort sentences instead. renshuu marks sentences based on how many unknown conjugations are in there, so I could say "order the sentences so that the ones with the least number of unknown conjugations get used first." This works nicely because it can handle both users who study grammar as well as those who don't.

The big issue here, though, is randomness. At the moment, it'll take all sentences that don't have too many unknown words, shuffle the list, then grab one for your question. However, if I start ordering them based on conjugation data, it could very easily be the case that you (for example) only see 2-3 sentences out of 10 that are generally at your level.

The most useful info I can get, though, is from the actual learners on renshuu who are using this question style, so please let me know what you think!

I'll admit that I struggle with conjugations but every time I see an unfamiliar one in a sentence, I check to see what word it is and why is was conjugated that way. I don't think having too many unknown conjugations would bother me a lot. It would be nice if they would still be underlined as a 'word I don't know' for the people who use that function.

I feel like I learn new words from vocab quizzes and the sentences. If I only got sentences with words I knew already it wouldn't be too much of a challenge, I like occasionally having words I don't know and piecing together their meaning from the rest of the sentence.

For me I use sentence questions because I want to be able to recognise the words in context, so having conjugations I am not familiar with actually helps that. I suppose it depends what you're using sentence questions for but I think while it'll make it easier to do the quiz, the overall learning may suffer? I constantly learn new words and grammar from the sentence-based questions for vocab quizzes and I don't want to miss that opportunity.

I'm with Anonymous123 though, if there is the ability to opt out I don't mind this being added as a feature. Since I study grammar specifically a lot less on renshuu (because I use sentence questions) I would prefer it not to be the only way as it means I'll have to be monitoring and adding grammar as "I know this" when I may not know that I know it until I see it in context (because I picked it up through immersion, for example).

My main qualm with the idea to use it to sort sentences is like you said, I may only see 2-3 sentences for this word now, and if I wanted to study that specific sentence I think I'd make a sentence schedule. I am a bit torn because of course at first it's easier to understand if you see it in the same context a few times but I think there is merit in seeing it in different contexts.

Thanks for the clarity! Good to know.

Yes, I think having the option to use it to sort is a good idea.

I wonder if it is possible to do a slider type deal like with "mix in terms for review" where you can set it on a range of "no grammar points I reportedly don't know - noting this may mean no sentence question is available" to "gimme everything" that allows users to slowly change it as they progress. Once they get to a certain level there can be a reminder sent "hey, here's a feature you may not have looked at but might want to adjust now".

These are hard, and I have a suggestion. When the word in question is conjugated have an expandable section labeled something like "Conjugation hint(s)". In this section show the conjugations that have been done to the word. If you could also link to the conjugation page that would be awesome. These hints would help me unwind the conjugations to figure out what the dictionary form of the word in question was.

Oh, I kinda like that idea, or something along those lines. It's a lot simpler than tweaking the sorts of sentences shown.

Maybe instead of limiting sentences, we add a hint that users can reveal if necessary that'll show the dictionary form of the verb. Kinda like how you can reveal the kanji when doing kana > meaning questions.

From experience, I know the toughest part about sentence questions with unknown conjugations is when the word I'm being quizzed on itself is conjugated in a way I don't recognize. On the one hand, it's good practice to be able to recognize unusual conjugations and figure out the dictionary definition, but sometimes I just have no idea. Sometimes I don't even recognize it as a conjugated verb at all.

The presence of the hint can clue in the reader that it IS a verb, which they might not want. So, it should probably be an option that can be turned off.

And the type of hint can be tweaked. It can either just show you the dictionary definition or it can show you the "cheat sheet" for that conjugation and you can use it to guess the dictionary form on your own. So you'd have three options, no conjugation hint, "cheat sheet" hint, or dictionary form hint.

I know the toughest part about sentence questions with unknown conjugations is when the word I'm being quizzed on itself is conjugated in a way I don't recognize.

I love this idea. I am a beginner, and have been tempted to turn off sentences because I so often get quizzed on vocab that has been conjugated in a way I haven't learned yet, when I have only seen the word once before, conjugated differently.

This suggestion would enable the question to be a learning one, rather than a guessing one or just "I don't know".

Perhaps the score for that word should not be increased by much or anything if the hints are used though.